Episode 185: Joe Navarro – Rod Ramsay Espionage Case, Reading Body Language

Retired agent Joe Navarro served in the FBI for 25 years. During his Bureau career, he worked as an agent and supervisor in counterintelligence and counterterrorism. In this episode of FBI Retired Case File Review, Joe reviews the case of Rod Ramsay, an  Army veteran living in Tampa, Florida, suspected of committing espionage while stationed in Germany. While interviewing Ramsay forty-two times, Joe recorded the evidence to prove that the spy handed the Soviets vital military secrets that could destroy the US. Joe wrote about the case in his book – Three Minutes to Doomsday: An Agent, a Traitor, and the Worst Espionage Breach in U.S. History.

Through his work, Joe Navarro was able to study, refine, and apply the science of nonverbal communications. His expertise in the body language field and his success as a spy-catcher led Joe to begin training FBI agents and the intelligence community at the FBI Academy’s Behavioral Science Unit. He reveals some of the myths about reading body language and what different nonverbal cues indicate.

Retiring from the FBI in 2003, and meeting overwhelming demand for his notable insights into human behavior, Joe has dedicated himself to speaking and consulting with major corporations worldwide. He is recognized as one of the world’s foremost authorities on reading nonverbal communications and he has interviewed on programs such as NBC’s Today Show, Fox News, ABC’s Good Morning America, CBS’ Early Show, BBC News, and for publications such as The Washington Post, South China Morning Post and Psychology Today. You can find out more about Joe and his thirteen books on his website https://www.jnforensics.com/about.

Special Agent

Joe Navarro (Retired)

1978 – 2003









“It’s not about the confessions; it’s about face time. If you can get a guy in front of you and keep him there, with enough time they will always reveal what’s going on.” —Retired Agent Joe Navarro

The following are links to newspaper articles about the Rod Ramsay Tampa Division espionage investigation, and additional resources information for Ramsay’s co-conspirator Clyde Lee Conrad, and Joe Navarro’s work with body language:

The Washington Times – May 9, 2015: Tale of 1980s spy ring broken in Tampa getting attention

UPI ARCHIVES – JUNE 8, 1990:  Tampa man arrested in West German spy case

Clyde Lee Conrad – Wikipedia

VIDEO – Former FBI Agent Explains How to Read Body Language | Tradecraft

Rod Ramsay’s passport photo.
FBI Surveillance photo of Rod Ramsay.









Joe Navarro with “Mrs. Moody” – According to Joe, SA Terry Moody was able to get Rod Ramsay to lower his guard and talk to them.









This is Joe Navarro’s story of how he rallied his investigative team to get a spy to confess and expose vulnerabilities in America’s defense. Buy the book here.











Joe explains how to “speed-read” people: decode sentiments and behaviors, avoid hidden pitfalls, and look for deceptive behaviors. Buy the book here.
















Jerri Williams

View posts by Jerri Williams
Jerri Williams, a retired FBI agent, author and podcaster, attempts to relive her glory days by writing crime fiction and hosting FBI Retired Case File Review, a true crime podcast available for free subscription on Apple Podcast, Google Podcast, Spotify, and other popular podcast apps. Her nonfiction book FBI Myths and Misconceptions: A Manual for Armchair Detectives and her FBI corruption squad police procedural series featuring Special Agent Kari Wheeler are available wherever books are sold.

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