323: Understanding Deadly Force with Stop The Killing Podcast

In this episode, I team up with the Stop The Killing podcast. When the hosts, Katherine Schweit and Sara Ferris, invited me to be a guest on their show, I suggested we review the core principles of America’s deadly force policy assumed by everyone who carries a gun, whether they’re a law enforcement officer or a private citizen.

I hope my conversation with Katherine and Sarah provides an understanding of what it’s like to carry a gun. Please stay safe.

Our conversation was originally posted on the Stop The Killing podcast as Season 4 episodes  58 and 59.

Retired agent Katherine Schweit is the former head of the FBI’s Active Shooter Program. She opened her own consulting business, Schweit Consulting LLC, providing consulting services to businesses, schools, and others focused on improving security policies, procedures, and training. Katherine is the author of Stop the Killing: How to End the Mass Shooting Crisisand the host of the Stop the Killing podcast. She was previously a guest on FBI Retired Case File Review episode 255: School Shootings, Active Shooter Program.

Sarah Ferris is co-host of Stop The Killing podcast. Her company, Sarah Ferris Media, offers comprehensive freelance podcast production and consultation services, tailored to assist new creators and seasoned podcasters with idea development, long-form series production, hosting, and collaborative services.

I dedicate this show to those who made the ultimate sacrifice and lost their lives in the line of duty.

To bring authority to the topic, To be respectful to those who have had  I wanted to include the voices of agents with first-hand-experience describing what it’s to take a life to save a life and those who have been shot in the line of duty while trying to protect and save the lives of others. During the episode, we include audio clips from some of the shows I’ve previously recorded with retired agents involved in shooting incidents.

The following are FBI Retired Case File Reviews episodes with retired agents involved in shooting incidents featured in this show about the use of deadly force:

267: John Kuchta – 1994 DC Metro Police Headquarters Ambush

266: Martha Dixon, Line of Duty Service Martyr

263: Craig Arnold – Shooting Incidents, FBI Medals Program

161: Jim Sweeney and Rich Macko – Broad Street Shootout

118: Ed Mireles – Fatal FBI Miami Shootout (Part 1)

119: Ed Mireles – Fatal FBI Miami Shootout (Part 2)

The following are articles about the Deadly Force policy:


U.S Supreme Court ruling – Tennessee v. Garner, 471 U.S. 1 (1985)

U.S Supreme Court ruling – Graham v. Connor, 490 U.S. 386 (1989)

FBI Releases Officers Killed and Assaulted in the Line of Duty, 2023 Special Report and Law Enforcement Employee Counts — FBI

Officers Killed and Assaulted in the Line of Duty, 2023

The DOJ Policy on Use of Force was updated May 20, 2022.
My deadly force discussion with Katherine and Sarah was truly an emotional ride, but here’s a screenshot from one of our light-hearted moments.








Jerri Williams

View posts by Jerri Williams
Jerri Williams, a retired FBI agent, author and podcaster, jokes that she writes about the FBI to relive her glory days. After 26 years with the Bureau specializing in major economic fraud and corruption investigations, she calls on her professional encounters with scams and schemers to write police procedurals inspired by true crime FBI cases in her Philadelphia FBI Corruption Squad crime fiction series featuring flawed female FBI agent Kari Wheeler. Jerri’s FBI for Armchair Detectives nonfiction series enables readers to discover who the FBI is and what the FBI does by debunking misconceptions about the FBI in books, TV, and movies. Her books are available as ebooks, paperbacks, and audiobooks wherever books are sold. She’s also the host of FBI Retired Case File Review, a true crime podcast with more than 300 episodes available on all popular podcast apps and YouTube.

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